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Thread: Traditional Poultry colours from Veniard.

  1. #1

    Default Traditional Poultry colours from Veniard.

    I have already put part of this list in a string below, then scanning through the BB lists, I noticed that there were questions
    about Dun hackles etc. So I copied the whole of Veniard list and here it is:-

    Grizzle - alternate bars of black and white usually from Plymouth Rock poultry.
    Cree - Plymouth Rock/Rhode Island Red cross.
    Reds (Browns) - from Rhode Island Red poultry.
    Red Game - from Old English Game poultry.
    Badger - Black centre with white outer fibres, sometimes with black tips.
    Furnace - Black centre with red outer fibres.
    Coch-Y-Bondhu - As Furnace but with the edges of the fibres tipped with black.
    Greenwell - Black centre with ginger outer fibres.
    Blue Dun - Slate grey.
    Iron Blue - very dark slate grey.
    Dun - mouse colour.
    Honey Dun & Honey Blue Dun - These have honey tipped fibres.
    Rusty Dun & Rusty Blue Dun - These have rusty tipped fibres.

    White/ Black/ Buff/ Ginger/ Honey/ etc./ are self descriptive.
    (Easy for him to say that.)

    I shall probably put this on my site.
    Donald Nicolson (Scotland)


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Nashville, TN. USA
    Blog Entries

    Default Re: Traditional Poultry colours from Veniard.

    Thank you!


  3. #3
    Normand Guest

    Default Re: Traditional Poultry colours from Veniard.

    how old is the veniards list you copied and is it relevant to todays birds from whiting, metz, conranch, collins etc???

    dun-mouse colour really??? dont mice come in white to black and every grayscale in between???

    i would think the colors shown on todays growers of hackles websites are more relevant.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Traditional Poultry colours from Veniard.

    The list dates from when the book was published, 1st ed. 1952, 4th ed. 1970.
    Which is not that long ago.
    I would have thought it was obvious that the mouse referred to was the house mouse, which is a brown/grey colour.
    If you are not satisfied with the list, go to the aforesaid websites.
    Nobody is stopping you.
    Donald Nicolson (Scotland)


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Oregon Coast(Outside of Seaside/Astoria)

    Default Re: Traditional Poultry colours from Veniard.

    As I did, when this "Dun Debate", first was posted on another thread here, I copied your list from Vienard's and took it to Henry to show him and ask his opinion of its "accuracy of color descriptions".

    He went down the list and then told me: "That's one of most accurate color/description lists, I've ever seen".

    I asked him, then, specifically about the "Dun" color, description and he sort of chuckled and said, "Well, I sure couldn't describe it any better!! "Mouse color", Paul is obviously taken from the colors of field/house mice.... sort of a "brownish/gray" color".

    He then, added, as a side note on his own that; (Quote) "Not only, is the list accurate........ it's held true, since the majority of the flies we still tie today, come from the date this was written. Any changes from it, would only come from hackle breeders that can't match it, accurately and so are trying to shove something else over on us, in their own defense!" End Quote.

    So, thanks for running that list, Donald. I hope, you do, post it on your sight.......it would be helpful to a lot of tiers, I'm sure!

    Saint Paul-"The Highly Confused"
    You cannot do a kindness too soon, for you never know how soon it will be too late.
    -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Yelm, WA USA

    Default Re: Traditional Poultry colours from Veniard.


    My friend, you've done it again. Thanks for posting that list. Makes it easier to select my hackle now. I'll have to have a printed copy the next time I'm rummaging through Denny's suitcases at a Fish-In.

    Happiness is wading boots that never have a chance to dry out.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005

    Default Re: Traditional Poultry colours from Veniard.

    Colors sound pretty close to what the cat just caught!! LOL Thanks for the post!
    Good Tying and Good Fishing!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Novi, Michigan, USA

    Default Re: Traditional Poultry colours from Veniard.

    Thanks, Donald. Good info as always. Nice to see what the "old thinking" was on the colors we all think we know . . . .


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